"Although we don't know precisely where people are being sent, or on what scale, these deportations are certainly happening," said Bishop Stanislav Szyrokoradiuk of Odesa-Simferopol. "Many children are being taken from orphanages in Kherson and other occupied towns -- and though some have tried to return, this hasn't been possible. It's just one of many human rights violations we are witnessing." In a Sept. 9 interview with Catholic News Service, he said it had been difficult to make "clear factual distinctions between deportations and evacuations," or to obtain data on "forced and voluntary" relocations. "While most Catholics from war-affected areas have escaped to Poland and the West, some pro-Russian citizens have also gone East, perhaps believing life will be better there," Bishop Szyrokoradiuk said. "But efforts are also underway to take as many Ukrainian children as possible and turn them into new people who'll belong to Russia. Just as in past history, when Ukrainians were also taken away, children are being used for propaganda, to show how kind the Russians are."